Why Faction War Is Going To Suck

Next week is the launch of Inferno and if it is anything like the fanfest video promises for Factional Warfare, it’s going to suck for the underdogs.

Let me explain.

From what I understand, plexing is going to suddenly have meaning, which in theory isn’t a bad idea. It’s what most FW pilots have wanted all along, I mean, who really wants to orbit a beacon for 20 minutes for no reward other than victory points (that amounts to nothing).

As it stands, very few players plex, and those who do, do so for various reasons. Some do it merely for rp reasons (like myself), some do it to control the size of a fight and use the plexes as tactical points, and some do it merely because they want to defend their militia’s space. If you have 30 minutes and are bored, why not?

I loved plexing when I was a new player, it gave me something to do in a frigate and I felt like I was contributing to the war effort.

Later I would like plexing as I started to pvp because it did control fights- can’t get hotdropped in them.

With the proposed new changes, plexing will be rewarded by giving the pilot LP instead of the worthless VP (that I’ve accumulated so much of).

That is a good thing. Very, very good thing. I foresee many pilots jumping into plexing now.

The current plexing system is horrid in that, the map is difficult to understand how contested a system is. Little blobby paint dots across the star map, ugh.

I believe they are going to update that so that it will be easier to know what is contested and how contested is. I think, anyhow. Which is still a really good improvement for FW.

On to the sucky part.

Currently if a system flips to the opposing side, it means nothing. There are no reasons to flip it other than RP reasons or bragging rights. It means little to a typical FW pilot if a system is occupied by your enemy.

What’s going to happen now (proposed) is when a system is captured by your enemy, you cannot the dock in the stations.

“Oh great, just like null sec!” one of my 0.0 friends said to me yesterday as I was complaining about this.

But that’s the point. Low sec and FW is not null sec, and the same mechanics should not apply.

FW is supposed to be ‘fight club’, as Hans Jagerblitzen has said in the past. The majority of the FW pilots want to log on, undock and go pew pew. We aren’t interested in holding Sov, if we were, we would actually BE in null sec.

As it stands, it takes around six hours to flip a system. This means while you’re asleep or at work, your space-enemies are out there taking your systems and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it.

In the past this mattered little. In the future this means that I’m going to be locked out of my station next time I log on.

So what, should we not care about our real lives? Don’t work, don’t sleep, don’t have a relationship. Just stay on EVE and plex so you can access your stuff.

Okay so that’s a little melodramatic, but still, that’s how I feel at the moment.

Militia’s are vastly different from null sec Alliances. Null sec alliances have call-to-arms and work together on a single goal. They have thousands of people around the clock working together. Militia’s are fragmented. I play at night and rarely know what’s going on with the daytime Amarr militia. Can I count on those guys to be plexing and defending the stations I’m living in?

The alternative is moving out of the FW war zone, which our corporation is currently in the process of doing, and I assume a lot of other corporations are planning the same.

And isn’t that kind of ironic? To be a FW corporation but cannot actually live in an FW system without fear of losing access to your stuff within 24 hours?

The other night, our corporation with a few friends plexed to take back Arzad from Minmatar control. We did it around 3am (at which point I went to bed) By the next afternoon, the Minmatar had already taken it back.

A system shouldn’t flip twice within the space of twelve hours.

The following night, the Late Night Alliance was out plexing and took TZVI. They had 40 in their fleet. Amarr had seven. There was nothing we could counter with.

It seems as if the victors are going to be vastly rewarded when FW is redone, and the underdogs are going to be struggling as always. Which hasn’t been too much of a problem in the past, because occupancy didn’t mean anything. We could ship down to frigs and dessies and still get a couple of fights.

But now we might not be able to access our stuff if we don’t log on every single night. And it’s going to suck when trying to go for a roam because we wont be able to dock anywhere within the war zone. Already the Minmatar have ten of our systems while we hold only one of theirs. They have taken these systems for no reward other than they can.

I think it’s going to get far worse when they are rewarded for their efforts.

And then what? What new corporation is going to want to join the losing militia side? Which would you pick? ‘Oh welcome to FW, but you can’t actually dock anywhere.’ Of course they will join the winning side, which will only unbalance things even more.

I feel like if they lock us out of our stations it’s going to really hinder FW. I don’t see the benefits of being on the losing side, especially when all we want to do is pvp. We could quit FW and have access to all the stations again and just go pirate, that would be far more lucrative than being punished for not having the numbers to fight the blobbier side. (and don’t start, I know every militia blobs at times)

Even if they make it take longer to claim a system, instead of six hours, even if they make it take days, it’s going to still suck because the enemy has claimed systems under the old system, which only took them six hours but will then take us days to take back.

So I’m begging CCP, please reset the occupancy if you insist on locking us out of our stations. (though I would rather not be locked out in the first place)

What do you guys think?

25 Responses to “Why Faction War Is Going To Suck”

  1. I play in low sec because I like low sec. How many roams will end with me saying “Im sorry guys we are camped in. Jump safes till they leave or log off here.” Even if we do get a fight we can’t reship or repair any longer. They will know where we live and camp the few low sec entrances to FW space. I am not trying to be dramatic but the numbers speak words I can not. Once these changes take hold Amarr will become weaker and the Minmatar even stronger. How is this good for the game.

    Already I get asked why Amarr won’t come fight. The minnies telling me they are bored and need us to come fight. Do you minnies think this will help get you any more fight?

  2. I am split on this. For RP reasons, it makes sense to lock us out of an enemy controlled station. However, the OOC implications are a bit dire for Amarr, which generally lacks the people to hold a system. I liked the suggestion I read in a forum wherein station services would be blocked to the other faction, not the one where my stuffs becomes unreachable.

    This expansion brings good and bad. We will have to adjust until enough QQ gets a change. I am sure even the minnies can kinda understand the frustration.

    • I don’t think there will be enough QQ to change this. People in null sec will think its fine and some may even join up. Other null sec wannabes will join as well.

      If incursions is any guide ccp will make some aspect of fw insanely profitable so they can claim a victory based on the number of people participating. CCP will make it so more people are participating in faction war – I have little doubt about that. But throwing a bunch of isk at a feature to attract players doesn’t really make the game of eve better.

      This will just move blobbers and carebears from one part of the game to another. It won’t add anything for the small gang pvpers who have never had a bone thrown to them in all of eve history.

      Its the the people who do fw for casual small scale pvp who drop out. CCP never does anything for that group so they are already pretty rare.

      Its too bad because faction war plexing was close to perfect for casual small scale pvpers. But ccp is just going ot piss it away to have another venue for blob wins pvp.

      • Well, to be fair, not being able to dock nearby actually favors small roaming gangs of ships, which will have much greater mobility and survivability than say, a large battleship fleet. I think victory will go to those that are the most tenacious, and the most organized – not to the faction that simply has the most numbers.

        Overall, I’m not near as afraid of the “blob factor” as others, based on what I’ve seen of the changes coming our way. I think we will begin to see more of a sweet spot in terms of FW fleet / gang size, that will be more attractive to fly and fight in than a large blob for a number of reasons.

      • cearain Says:

        Ok just for fun I will make some predictions which may end up being entirely wrong, of course:

        1) we will see more influence from neutrals (who can dock anywhere) on the faction war scene. I am thinking I may want to put my pvp characters in a neutral corp and leave my pve alts in faction war for the pve and lp stuff.

        2) Faction war battles (as in battles between 2 opposing factions) will be more limitted as to the number of systems in which they occur. Personally I highly doubt I will be going on long roams through metropolis in the cruiser down gangs I am used to.

        3) I do not know the reward system fully yet. But I anticipate at least one of the fronts will be lopsided within about 9 months of the changes. Not necessarilly all systems captured but at least one faction will be in a position where most nights there is very little they can do from a pvp occupancy perspective. Again the only way around this will be to use neutrals to help as indicated in number 1.

        4) cloaks will be used more often for offensive plexing. That way people can find a safe spot and cloak (instead of docking) they will also be able to use the cloak mwd trick. This required gimping will likely mean fewer offensive plexing ships will want to pvp.

        I’m not saying everyone will quit fw. More people may even join it. Hell people who do sov null sec love this change. Its not that the the no docking rule will make me unsub. Its just that it will make the game a bit worse.

  3. Don Radke Says:

    if I were them I’d start the QQ now, how much fun are they going to have when people start dropping out of the militia like flies to go pirate or join a 0.0 alliance/corp, I know the changes aren’t permanent yet, but moving your stuff out to .5 space in preparation seems a good idea, unless you have alts to JF your stuff out….

  4. This is likely to be a deal breaker for me. Not so much because I am going to be locked out of base station. I have alts to move stuff.

    The problem is the way I play and my real life. I can often only log on for short stints. So i will get in a destroyer or cruiser and roam into enemy territory for fights. Now if I do that I will need to make sure I have enough time to jump several jumps back to where I started.

    But the thing is i can’t really ever tell that. I know this may sound ridiculous to people in college or without kids but if they are playing and all of a sudden one falls down or some other sort of thing happens I now just dock up and deal with it. So what am I supposed to do after these changes? Tell the crying child – hold on let me go 6 jumps and then I will get to you.

    I realize allot of people who play eve may have allot more time to dedicate to the game and will only rarely have real life interruptions where they can’t just make it 6 jumps. But for me it will mean allot less pvp.

    Why won’t I roam in my own systems? Well it seems to me the people who will be roaming in my systems will likely have had the time to form up a fleet and go several jumps. Its hard to fight a fleet as a mainly solo pvper.

    As far as the changes happening faster I actually don’t mind that as long as the changes don’t mean I effectively keep fighting. In other words I don’t mind that systems flip fast – in fact I think they could even flip faster. Its the whole no docking stuff that sucks.

    CCP wants everything like null sec then ok. They will only have one type of player in their playerbase.

  5. Easiest thing to do here, would be simply to return the time it takes to capture a system back to pre-Crucible. Well, maybe not that long, it should be doable in a day or so, but not 6-8 hours, or 5-7 days. I’d say anywhere between 24 and 36 hours would be about right, as it gives both sides plenty of time to fight back/push forwards.

    Just my 2 cents.

    • Slowing things down will just make the war more blobby and make it so the side with fewer numbers has nothing they can do. The dominant side will just watch the enemy try sneak attacks that accomplish nothing and then form a blob and undue it.

  6. I think instead of locking out a station, a FW controlled space should have access to extra ‘stuff’ that you won’t otherwise have access to if you didn’t control it.

    For example, extra build/reserach slots, or cheaper LP (even cheaper than normal) rewards, etc.

  7. Andre Vauban Says:

    I think the whole concept of denying docking rights is taking it too far. That makes FWtoo close to Sov 0.0. Most of us like FW because it is not Sov warfare. Go figure.

    The other big problem is what you stated. Once a side starts to win, they will utterly crush the other side. Nobody will want to join the side that cannot dock. How is the losing side going to take systems back when they cannot dock in the war zone? The winning side can reship in system. The losing side has to travel 10 jumps to high sec to reship.

    FW needs to be a war that no side can really “win”. If a side has lost most of the systems, it should be trivial for them to start taking them back if they try. It needs to be exponentially easier to take systems as you hold fewer systems and exponentially harder to take systems as you take systems.

  8. Murientor Tribe have been plexing since FW began and I have been plexing since i joined 20 months ago.

    I have fought 1pg then the pervs who used alts in vigils to capture half of metropolis, When they got bored we had to plex it all back using the old system which took weeks if not months.

    I do agree with you slavers that the new system shouldn’t give the holders of the system to much of a advantage, But we have EARNED our systems I have spent alot of my game time capturing these system so why the hell should you get them back for free??

    There are alot of the day shift Amarr who don’t do plexing, Wolfsbrigade have 128 members but I never see any of them plexing.
    There are more than enough Amarr to take back your systems but they can’t be bothered because it’s useless VP.

    Why should be players who have bothered be disadvantaged.

  9. Shit, must be a hard life in the militia. Got access to all that shiny Navy loots. BUT OMG! WE WILL HAVE TO FIGHT TO CONTROL OUR SYSTEMS!

    Deal with it scrubs. Oh and come and take over Hevrice PLEASE! I hate roaming 20 jumps for targets!

  10. Damar Rocarion Says:

    Don’t start on vigils Markius. It was done to show CCP what back-then FW representative of CSM was doing in Gallente space with “working as intended” standings issues. CCP didnt take action.

    And retaking systems took weeks? Lol, where had the “ton of plexes every dt” disappeared. Even with old system you could take your own sov systems back in couple of days.

    But yeah, the changes as they are right now have been made by a dev playing for gallente and are implemented on time when it will massively benefit gallente. Amarr and Caldari militias will cease to exist because they have less numbers and there is no incentive to join the underdog.

    So everyone pack your shit up and move it to high-sec. I know that’s what i’m doing.

  11. Kuan Yida Says:

    I’m still not sure how it will all work and I’m going to kick back and wait and see… reminds me how everyone thought alliances would destroy FW. My own prediction of how all the militia corps would form into alliances has been more the reality.

    Losing docking rights (at least to faction stations) may be the way to go and force people to just keep their stuff scattered around or at neutral stations (or GASP in hisec). I doubt it will break the fight club mentality of FW, it should only hopefully make the fighting more meaningful,

    If the empire navies get as smarter then defending plexes will get easier. Let’s hope this goes hand in hand.

    • But isn’t that kind of lame? A FW pilot cannot reasonably store their ships in the Factional Warzone because a system can be lost within 6 hours. Who is going to risk losing their stuff because while you were asleep or at work, someone wasn’t plexing hard enough.
      And really, not everyone can play EVE every single day. That’s why a lot of people choose FW, so that they can pvp when they have a chance to, not because they MUST be online to defend sov.

      • The good news is that I’ve expressed this to CCP loud and clear, and they are very receptive to feedback especially with regards to this issue.

        In general, I can say that there is nothing about the new Faction Warfare system that “requires” anything of anyone. No one will force you to defend systems, no one will force you to participate in plexing, no one will be forced into missioning for income anymore.

        There will be benefits for those that fight as a team, and work across their militia. Coordination, cooperation, and *strategy* will make the experience much more rewarding. (And this is how it SHOULD be.)

        However, for those that don’t give a damn about helping their faction, but still want to log in, shoot some flashies, and get some cookies, will have plenty of reasons to do so as well. There is a place for the small independent corp as well as the large alliances and coalitions.

        Remember – eve is a game of risk and reward. CCP is proposing increasing the risk to a roaming gang – losing docking access would mean fewer safe places to stop and lick your wounds. However, there are substantially greater rewards being offered to compensate.

        I believe in you guys. You’ve stuck with a “dead feature” for years, making the best out of it despite it being half finished. The same dedication that built the community we have today will carry us right through into the new age, and there are plenty of tough pilots who will learn to roll with the punches and adapt to new challenges, teaching others to do the same just as we have all along.

  12. Kristopher Says:

    What is the big deal?

    If you can’t access your stuff, contract it to an alt, and have the alt haul it out or pay one of the hauling corps to move it a few jumps to highsec.

    Or build a POS there and defend it.

  13. I wouldn’t be worried about being on the losing side. CCP has already anounced the reason people will join the losing side for profit; Datacores!
    When the FW LP store has Datacores for their own race the losing side will have less LP thus there will be less datacores of that race. Now what will happen to the price of those datacores?
    Once one side in a conflict starts losing their ranks will swell with ‘profiteers’ who want to farm the best datacores. This effect becomes stronger the more one side is losing.
    I’m not sure if this will cause a continuous wave of winning and losing or that there will be a equilibrium between winning and losing. It might even be that some groups will try to game the system by first stashing a lot of LP/Datacores and then drive the price up by making thier ‘own’ side lose (a lot) of space.
    It will also make people join FW only when the side they like/have standings for is losing because it pays better than running missions/mining/whatever.
    One thing it will do for sure is make more people join FW for reasons you haven’t seen before.
    (PS I’m not in FW, might be I’ll join the minmatar some day)

    • Damar Rocarion Says:

      So people join their respective side to farm datacores, great! How does this translate to “warm bodies in fleets” remains to be seen.

      Fact of a matter is, it wont. Farmers will farm and losing wont have anyone left living in low-sec, much less undocking. Alliances gave Matar the numbers advantage they needed, other changes give gallente the advantage they need.

      And thus FW is over. Do you actually think winning side will “get bored” and look for greener pastures? Hell no, only corporation to have ever done it was Draketrain.

  14. I think it’s a bit lame when TLF pilots can base out of 24IC stations in Amarr sov systems. What, the 24IC cops can’t kick the door in of the Captain’s quarters either? I’d much rather they were prevented from that.

    I do have a lot of sympathy for the people who can’t dock up when RL calls though, so I’d probably like to see it restricted to faction stations.

  15. Damar Rocarion Says:

    Yet you cannot indicate or say anything concrete what will be happening or will the changes even hit a test server? After all, how much advance warning we had with plex respawn change? 48 hours or thereabouts. Not sure if they were in SiSi before that but who would have thought about checking the mechanism or paid attention to it?

    You seem to hint that system lockdown is a done deal with “CCP is proposing increasing the risk to a roaming gang – losing docking access would mean fewer safe places to stop and lick your wounds. However, there are substantially greater rewards being offered to compensate. ”

    So what could these rewards posibly be or the incentive for anyone to join a losing side? This is a question most people want to know because right now, dominant side will keep bloating up and losing side will continue to bleed numbers.

    Knowing CCP’s track record and the bias they have showed in the past, I will be moving my assets to high-sec and evaluating if FW is worth sticking around anymore.

  16. […] BLOG Militia’s are vastly different from null sec Alliances. Null sec alliances have call-to-arms and work together on a single goal. They have thousands of people around the clock working together. Militia’s are fragmented. I play at night and rarely know what’s going on with the daytime Amarr militia. Can I count on those guys to be plexing and defending the stations I’m living in? […]

  17. […] April 20th, Shalee ended a post about how Faction War is going to suck in Inferno with a plea to CCP to reset the […]

  18. […] set up a new system, that by the way took heavy scrutiny from veteran FW bloggers,vocal capsuleers and CSMs, that heavily favors PLEX farming for LP and rewards for […]

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